Ist das eine Technik oder fällt das unter "Stimmumfang"? Blind Guardian - Sacred

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Hey Leute,

ich habe da eine Frage zu diesem Lied ("Sacred" von Blind Guardian).

Nach 2:05 geht der gute Hansi da mit der Zeile "I know I will not fail, there'll be hope!" richtig hoch. Ich frage mich jetzt, ob das einfach in seinen Stimmumfang fällt, oder ob er da eine bestimmte Technik verwendet, da imo auch die Klangfarbe im Gegensatz zu vorher verändert wird.

An meine Frage schließt sich an: Ich versuche mich seit einiger Zeit an ebendiesem Lied, bin selbst irgendwas unklassifizierbares zwischen Barriton und Tenor, kann aber auch höhere Bassparts halbwegs vernünftig singen.
Bei einer Klassifizierung wurde mir gesagt, ich könne präzise bis zum zweigestrichenen (notiert) bzw. eingestrichene (real) F# belten, darüber würde's weniger sauber werden.
Mit ein wenig Druck komme ich allerdings auch in die Höhen dieses Liedes, Problem dabei ist, dass meine Klangfarbe dabei absolut besch***** wird - ich frage mich nun, ob ich nur ein verbessertes Verhältnis aus Stütze/Druck/Übung brauche, um auch "da oben" sauber zu werden, oder ob ich da lieber die Finger von lassen sollte, um mein Organ nicht dauerhaft zu zerreißen?

Vorab: Schmerzen hab ich beim Singen (wenn richtig eingesungen) nicht, höchstens an den Ohren, weil's etwas laut wird... ;)
 
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Das ist sowohl eine Sache des Stimmumfangs als auch der Technik. ;)
Die Stelle, die Du meinst, klingt fuer mich allerdings auch etwas gedrueckt. Vollstimmig ist es jedenfalls meiner Meinung nach.
(Insgesamt singt er meistens in der Mischstimme (=Vollstimme mit Kopfrezonanz)
Allerdings kommt er mit manchen Schreien auch noch wesentlich hoeher. Wo genau und ob da das Falsett ins Spiel kommt kann ich Dir aber nicht sagen.
So oder so hat er eine sehr eigenstaendige Stimme, die wohl nur wenige nachvollziehen koennen. (Nicht nur im Sinne von aehnlich klingen koennen, sondern auch im "Nachfuehlen" was er da macht. Ich tu mich da bei ihm ehrlich gesagt schwer.) Als Vorbild ist er von daher vielleicht nicht fuer jeden geeignet.

Was nun Dich angeht, so kann ich Dir da auch nichst verbindliches sagen. (Warum hab ich ueberhaupt angefangen zu schreiben? :D)
Der sichere Weg waere den Fokus in naechster Zeit auf die Mischstimme zu legen. Allerdings haben wohl die wenigsten Saenger in dieser Richtung sich gross einen Kopf ueber Gesangstechnik gemacht, sondern einfach losgelegt. Zumindest am Anfang. Und die meisten Saenger auf diesem Gebiet haben so gesungen, weil sie es eben relativ flott konnten
Hansi Kuersch hatte soweit ich weiss spaeter auch Unterricht bei einer Klassikerin, aber die Hoehe war schon vorher da.
Ein gutes Stueck Veranlagung darf man also annehmen.
 
Ich hab vor einiger Zeit mal ein Interview gefunden, in der Hansi etwas genauer über seine Techniken und generell über Gesang spricht.
Wenn Interesse besteht, kann ich es hier gerne mal posten.
 
*Interesse bekund* Wäre super, würde mich wirklich mal interessieren, ob der Junge einfach sonen Stimmumfang hat, oder ob das i-wie geschult wurde ;)
 
Ich persönlich hab' die Burschen live nicht gesehen, aber ein Freund von mir behauptet, Hansi sei live eine ziemliche Pflaume. Es ist also durchaus möglich, daß er so etwas auch nur alle 25 Versuche hinbekommt - und das pickt man sich dann halt im Studio zurecht. Oder er singt halt jede Zeile einzeln mit langen Pausen dazwischen oder es wird gepitcht oder was auch immer...
Wie dem auch sei, auf den Alben klingt er gut - die Stimme ist einfach unverwechselbar :great:

Du wirst Dir nicht die Stimme ruinieren, wenn Du einfach damit herumprobierst. Solange Du's nicht übertreibst, passiert da auch nix. Es bringt einen zuweilen ein ordentliches Stück weiter, wenn man sich hin und wieder mal so richtig die Zähne an was ausbeißen kann. Nimm' Dich selbst auf dabei, im Eifer des Gefechts überhört man schnell mal kleinere Veränderungen...
 
aber ein Freund von mir behauptet, Hansi sei live eine ziemliche Pflaume.
Auf den Gesang bezogen und die Konzerte, auf denen ich war, stimmt das absolut nicht.
Klar sucht er sich auch mal eine von den tieferen Gesangsspuren aus, aber ansonsten ist das von der Qualitaet her meistens sehr dicht an den CDs. Mal davon ab, dass jeder mal einen schlechten Tag oder eine Erkaeltung hat und ich schon viele misratene Gesangsvorstellungen gerade von Metalsaengern erleben durfte, kann ich den Pflaumenkommentar also alles andere als nachvollziehen.
 
Das Interview ist leider englisch, aber ich hoffe du kannst trotzdem was damit anfangen.

Austin: First off, who were the singers you listened to growing up that made you want to become a singer?

Hansi: Freddy Mercury and Ian Gillan have been the first two vocalists who have really moved something in me.


Austin: Have you always had a natural ability to sing, or is it something that has come with lots of time and practice?

Hansi: As far as I can think back I loved to sing. I always considered that an expression of my good mood and never looked at it as my first step in becoming a vocalist. When I started making music I had a stronger tension to become a guitarist. That changed when I met André Olbrich in school, who needed a bassist and a vocalist for his band "Zero Fault". He has been the one realizing my potential as a vocalist. I was screaming Gillan and MSG parts during one of our high school parties. He somehow liked it. All in all I would say my singing is natural but some of the skills I own nowadays are the result of constant practice

Austin: What kind of vocal training have you had in the past?

Hansi: Apart from natural abilities which helped in the early days of Blind Guardian, I did not do anything to improve my vocal skills until "Tales from the Twilight World" our third album. A friend of mine who was working on his career as a pop vocalist taught me a few tricks. What we basically were doing was nothing else than practising some songs from the sixties. Despite the 60´s songs we always ended up with Manowar ´s "Heart of Steel". Afterwards I seriously started taking classical vocal lessons. My teacher is a female opera singer and taught me a lot about breathing and how to establish and widen my range. Since she has been disappointed with the snobish attitude of classical musicians here in Europe she never tried to change my musical ideology, neither did she try to have an impact on how I do my Metal stuff in the studio. She accepted the differences between technical knowledge and abilities and the necessity of using them (or not) in Guardian songs.

Austin: Have you ever done any major damage to your voice? What did you have to do to get it back to where it needed to be?

Hansi: Throughout my career my ears have been the bigger problem. I do have Tinitus, which luckily disappears from time to time, but does also come back. I also have to say that as most people I find it more difficult to listen than to talk. Apart from that I constantly have to struggle with sinuses, which especially on touring can cause severe problems, because Blind Guardian ´s one and only golden rule is "Do not cancel a show due to illness". Painful for everyone but extremely dangerous for vocalists, of course. Even with the most horrrible laryngitis I went on stage. I have not found a way to keep full control with regard to my vocal technics in such case. So that ´s the point when I exhaust my vocal cords and sometimes ruin my voice for a few weeks. To recover completely after such situations I would need rest at least for a quarter of a year, which we usually do not have. Still I never have had any serious damage, which had to be fixed.That ´s probably because I carefully build up my voice after we have finished touring. It can take up to twelve months until I reach a new peak in terms of full control and possible new regions to sing in.

Austin: You seem to have a pretty wide range; do you have any idea of what it currently is?

Hansi: I do not have an exact idea, because the scaling of ranges depend a little bit on perspectives. I dare to say I have three and a half octaves. On our albums you can find some rare "Crash Test Dummies" lines as in "Noldor" or in "Thorn" as you can find real high pitch stuff. "A Night at the Opera" is full of it. When I listen to this album I sometimes wonder how I could do this stuff. It ´s pretty fast, high and very precise. Though I am voicewise in an even better condition than I was in 2000/2001 I am happy that our new stuff scratches my raspy mid range more than the spheres on "ANATO". All in all it is not important how wide your range is. The way a vocalist uses the two necessary octaves to express himself and the given musical band performance will make him an exceptional and recognicable vocalist.

Austin: You have a good control over the actual tonality of your voice. Tell me kinds of differences you feel in your voice when your singing high with a gritty tone as opposed to singing high with a clean tone?

Hansi: First of all sound makes me determine which direction I design a part in. If the music supplies a more clinical and clean atmosphere (mostly but not only created by chorus guitar patterns) I most likely will go for the high and clean tone, which can be performed as a clean but fairly thin falsetto voice or as a clean conrolled chest voice - depending on the intensity of the musical pattern. For most parts I use my lower belly and keep it under balanced control. During the performance of a "clean falsetto" air stream runs up the spine and finds an almost straight way out to my nostrils. My jaw region is relaxed; I could even chew chewing gum. If I go for a full tone the procedure is almost similar. The biggest difference I would feel at the very end of my spine, which I use as a support for a balanced tune. When the air and the tune comes up it tries to find a way out of my skull cap but stays in. Most air as the tune itself will come out to my mouth, jaw is widened under controll as well as the top of my mouth, which I try keep as relaxed as possible. It usually takes a little longer until I get the perfect clean chest part. Most difficult are the gritty high tones, because there is only a small difference between a controlled raging high pitched distorted performance and an almost hysterical, desperate attempt of a poor scream, which hurts my vocal cords. Doing some of these can spoil a whole day and I could have too much grit on my cords the next days, which has an effect on the other keys I sing in. If prefer to switch to clean vocal recordings then, so the raspy mid range and the heights can recover. Back to the gritty ones: I need perfect control for these to avoid these problems. The exact playback volume is essential. Too loud means I most probably will overscream the part and the result will be thin and illsounding - the performance will be skipped. Too quiet means I will hear possible mistakes in my performance and become insecure. Since my ears work different every day this is a big challenge for every engineer. The music as well as the vocals should be completely dry so it ´s easier for me to differ, especially when I do harmonies or stack myself. Depending on the range I sing my body is more or less completely in use. If it is a high figure with a high climax and I am set up properly there won ´t be any presure on my vocal chords and the neck region. This region only supplies the amount of raspy ingredients I want to add. All the rest including the outcoming result happen everywhere in my body but can be felt best at the bottom of my spine, in my feet and at the top of my head.




Austin: The majority of your songs are full of layer after layer of vocal harmony. Do you record each vocal track individually, use a harmonizer, or some mixture of the two?

Hansi:Each track is recorded individually. Harmonizers and "perfect pitch" programs do not work well with my voice due to distortion and natural double layer effects my vocal cords have. After having fixed everything, we do the same voices in a real choir session, again.

Austin: How did you develop your sense of harmony?

Hansi: There are and there were different steps in the progression of creation. Some things just happen and come naturally. To me they seem to be given by the music and the circumstances going along with it. I usually get a fully layered arrangement(or parts of it) before I start my vocal composing. In most of the cases I have to find my way through walls of guitars, effects and larger than life drum arrangements. I try to keep the original musical intention or at least what I consider to be the musical intention. I have to struggle with high pitch lead guitar orchestration, which means that at one or the other point I have to get to these regions as well, because if I did not do so later on it would be difficult to create a vocal arrangement which makes an instrumental composing a vocaldominated singalong song.

Austin: How hard is it for you to do your material live? You obviously don't have the luxury of being able to do all the huge harmonies during a concert, so how do you go about pulling off the song with the same amount of energy/complexity?

Hansi: Impossible in some and very cruel in many cases I have to admit. I have to live with compromises. We are not able to build up the gigantic choir walls with only five people on stage being able to sing. Out of these five three do only have limited qualities as vocalist. Therefore we try to supply basic choir information. I have to say that this usually works very well and we have found a decent way to keep the original intention. We are taking great benefit from the performance of our loyal fans who really sing throughout the whole concert. That also makes my job a little easier. The high pitch parts are barely ever an option. These parts are not only a difficulty because they are heavy to sing on a constant level, but also because we are musically changing keys a lot and I constantly have to struggle with ranges, dynamics and complexity in the vocals and in the music. Again, listening becomes the essential point. The better I can hear the necessary musical keys, the better I will sing. I don ´t say we are the only band having this problem, but in our case it is more obvious because melodies play a very important role in our music. I'll try to give an example. A vocalist only singing to rhythm guitars supported music can sing out of key and you will not recognize it, because both sounds and ranges are barely far away from each other. The more melodious information you have and the more these melodies interact the faster you will recognize blue notes, to say it nicely. In many songs we do have a lot of elements interacting at the same time. This can drive you nuts.

Austin: Since we're discussing your vocal harmonies, I want to go a little into your recording and writing process. Describe a typical day in the studio for you. How do you prepare, what do you record first, etc.

Hansi: Usually we work in two shifts. I am priviliged to proclaim the day shift as my godgiven territory, while guitars rule at night times. Nowadys since the amount of vocals has become bigger and bigger I do not work longer than five hours on vocals. My working day usually starts with a correction, creation and controlling of lyrics I am supposed to sing later on. After brewing coffee I continue with warming up. My excercises take up to 90 minutes. For most patterns I practice 2 full octaves in each step. Only a few lessons even go up to the highest and lowest regions I can sing to get them activated, as well. Afterwards I decide which parts I want to start with. That of course depends a lot on my daily condition. Naturally I try to start with a song I consider to be easier. I have been proven wrong several times. There is hardly anything I regard as standard when I have finished my songwriting, because I like to explore my limits.

Austin: When you are writing a song, how do you come up with melody ideas? There is obviously a lot going on throughout each of your songs, so it must be hard to think of ways to make all those different ideas fit together into one song?

Hansi: That ´s correct. Some of my ideas are based on what is originally there, already. But this would not work in a majority of cases and would also turn out to be boring throughout a whole song. So for most parts I try to find crossing lines. That means I have to find the right range for the main vocal lines to realize it, first. After that I consider the right parts to sing on and the right moments for the vocal keypoint. These are logically the places occuring halfway empty or not dominated by other instruments. Once that is done it is a try and fail situation. After a while I do have a sort of picture piece in hand which helps me to finish the first part. Afterwards it is "jigsawpuzzling".

Austin: Do you usually track the lead vocal before the backing vocals, or the other way around?

Hansi: Lead vocals first, but sometimes there is no lead voice. So in many cases I finish a choir/layer package before I continue. This also means we travel backwards and forwards through the song. Sometimes I have completed a whole song before I redo everything, again. A painful experience with so many layers. The difference is not gigantic, so its mostly done for one ´s ego.

Austin: Where do you start with the tracking of the backing vocals? Do you usually begin with the low parts and build up?

Hansi: That is a question of priorities. Usually I prefer a mid range voice or a sort of extremely important voice which can be regarded as the master voice determine exact speed, dynamic and expression for the others following later on. I found it extremely dangerous to start with lower ones or the easier ones because they sometimes do not reveal phonetical mistakes in the lyrical flow, while high ones usually do. Another painful experience in the past. The flow of words is important.

Austin: What kind of processing, if any, do you use to help create the massive sound of your vocals? Do you utilize or are you against the modern vocal processing technology (auto tune, harmonizing, vocoder, etc.)?

Hansi: Vocoder and harmonizing utilities are no option. But we have used manual auto tuning for single voice layers. As mentioned before the distorted intention of singing at parts but also the massive use of "Wah" guitars during vocal performances do make it difficult to use autotune in a regular way. Vocal intonation is based on the individual tuning of each song.

Austin: How exactly do you come up with your final vocal performance? Is it usually all done in a take or two, or is it a compilation of dozens of takes?

Hansi: That differs a lot. It can be both ways. I will not finish before I am completely satisfied, which usually takes a while. In very rare cases it is Charlie Bauerfeind, or André who have to be satisfied while I would have been happy with my performance before that.

Austin: Now, when you perform live, how do you keep in good health and good voice?

Hansi: I try to stay sobber. That is a golden rule. I have found out that drinking before a show spoils everything. I can recall 4, or 5 shows in my career during which I entered stage not completely sobber. They all ended up in a catastrophy. That has been a very healthy experience. Luckily I do not smoke and the smoking habits of those around me have changed completely. Noone smokes in the tourbus anymore. That ´s a little helpful. Other than that I try to find as much sleep as possible. That turns out to be difficult once I am on the road, due to bus rides, flights, etc. Most important for my shape is to warm up properly. I sometimes try to warm up for more than 90 minutes even on the road. Theoretically this could lead me healthy throughout a whole tour. Practically it will never work out, completely. As soon as someone gets a cold I will get it sooner or later. I have not found miracle cure to get back full condition, afterwards. So I have to carefully improvise with what is left then. Having the experience of many shows singing in such shape I have started to make that part of my daily excersises and I do have the feeling I have found a good way during the last months, but this needs to find approval during our next shows and the world tour.

Austin: When you do happen to get sick, what sorts of things do you do to get your voice back to normal for that nights show?

Hansi: I found out many things which are helpful. But nothing can be considered to be the reinvention of the wheel. If ranges of my voice are gone due to illness they will stay gone for a while. I consider this to be the first part of a recovering process. To stay calm and to stay in bed as long as possible can be very helpful if you are totally sick. In case I do not feel sick but my voice seems to be exhausted - just as a harbinger of the upcoming illness- I try to relax and do as many nice things as possible. Other than that I drink as much water and lemon tea (inluding honey,ginger and from time to time coconut milk) as possible. While warming up I prefer to do more relaxing excercises. I practise a fairly quiet and clean "You" excercise, five full tunes down as a cure for my vocal cords.With that one I try to open my voice up for to two full complete octaves. Sometimes I do this one day in day out. Even in very worse cases I get back my regular speaking voice and can sing ballad stuff propperly but it is no help in getting back aggressive high pitch singing like in "Imaginations ..." or "This will never end". As said I work on that issue and hope to be successul with what I try out at the moment.

Austin: What does your pre-performance warm up process consist of?

Hansi: There is a wide range of different excersises. Usually it all starts with breathing. I call it "three stage in breathing", keeping the air in for three seconds before I let it disappear carefully throughout a little gap while performing a toneless "SSSS...". First air disappearing is that from my belly and spine region, before I go up this region my body is allowed to relaxed. My chest stays active until I stop performing and preparing for the breath in. After breathing I try to activate each region of my body, which is somehow connected to the singing process.

Austin: A big problem for singers is getting their voice ready to go in the morning; how do you prepare for an early morning performance like a radio interview/acoustic set?

Hansi: If it ´s an interview I most probably will not do anything. In case of an accoustic set I most probably will do a set of relaxing excersises, followed by a reahearsal of the upcoming songs. I would not do too much in both cases.

Austin: Give me a summary of a day on the road for you. What kinds of preshow rituals do you have, promotional stuff to be done, soundchecks, etc.

Hansi: A day on the road looks as follows. Sleeping in a stinky bus until 9, or 10 AM. Afterwards there are two options: 1) Asking for a day room, but the request will be turned down: Breakfast with the crew. Waiting for someone waking up who is not working. Going out for some physical excersises (as long as I am not sick). Doing sightseeing. Having signing sessions and /or interviews. Warming up for soundcheck. Soundcheck. Warming up for the show - if there is a room available I can find some rest, which hardly ever is the case in the venues we are playing in. Meet and Greet/Interview. Show. Shower in the venue if it is halfway comfortable. Sleeper coach.
2) succesful begging for a day room in the production office: I first get the other guys woken up for departure to the hotel. Taking a shower in the hotel. Back to bed. Sleeping. Calling my wife. Preparing my voice for soundcheck. Soundcheck - Breakfast/Lunch, siging promotional stuff - Hotel - Shower and warming up for the show - Meet and Greet/sometimes interviews- Show - Back to the hotel for shower - Sleeper coach.
In both cases we are really longing for the next off-day.

Austin: Before we wrap it up, please tell everyone about your upcoming projects and any performances coming up.

Hansi: After having a song called "Sacred" in the computer game "Sacred", we have been focused on songwriting for the last twelve months and are about to start the preproduction for the next album. That keeps us busy until May. From May to August we will play some festivals in Europe before we are going to start the production for the next album. All in all an exciting and busy year 2009.

Austin: Finally, what is the single biggest piece of advice you would give to a young singer wanting to break into the industry.

Hansi: Be yourself and relax.
 
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Super, danke fuer's Raussuchen! :)
Das oder ein aehnliches hatte ich auch mal gelesen.
 
Auf den Gesang bezogen und die Konzerte, auf denen ich war, stimmt das absolut nicht.
Klar sucht er sich auch mal eine von den tieferen Gesangsspuren aus, aber ansonsten ist das von der Qualitaet her meistens sehr dicht an den CDs. Mal davon ab, dass jeder mal einen schlechten Tag oder eine Erkaeltung hat und ich schon viele misratene Gesangsvorstellungen gerade von Metalsaengern erleben durfte, kann ich den Pflaumenkommentar also alles andere als nachvollziehen.

Habe ich ähnlich erlebt. Aber Hansi sagt im Interview selbst, dass er improvisieren muss wenn er krank ist. Ergo würde ich empfehlen, die Band möglichst zu Tourbeginn zu sehen und nicht unbedingt beim letzten Konzert. Zudem darf man ja auch nicht vergessen, dass Hansis Art zu singen nicht unbedingt etwas ist, das man den ganzen Abend durchziehen kann, weil einem irgendwann einfach die Puste ausgeht. Blind Guardian spielen aber Shows die gut und gerne zwei Stunden dauern! Bei den hohen Sachen ermüdet die Stimme irgendwann und man eiert ein wenig herum - ein hohes C in Vollstimme kann ich z.b. auch nicht beliebig oft am Abend raushauen, zumindest nicht in dem Klang, den ich anstrebe.
Ich habe Blind Guardian schon wirklich oft live gesehen und war auch beim Blind Guardian Open Air in Coburg dabei. Da war Hansis Leistung an beiden Abenden tadellos (wie die der ganzen Band übrigens!). Wenn Sänger ein paar Tage Regenerationszeit haben nach einer langen Show, dann singen sie manchmal auch anders als auf Tour - das ist bei Hansi sicher auch der Fall. Von daher kann es gut sein, dass er live ab und an mal ein wenig spart und (wenn er krank ist) nicht so toll singt - aber das ist doch völlig normal, oder?
 
Dann wollen wir Eure Aussagen stehenlassen. Meine war ja - wie gesagt - nur aus 2. Hand und noch dazu von einem Nichtsänger. Hansi bleibt also unangekratzt :great:. Blind Guardian ist die einzige Band meiner damaligen Metalzeit, die ich nicht live gesehen hab' - hat sich nie ergeben...
 
Mir ging es gar nicht darum, Hansi zu glorifizieren. Der hat mit Sicherheit Formschwankungen, aber eine Pflaume ist für mich jemand wie Tom Delonge. Auch von Tim McIlrath (Rise Against) war ich enttäuscht (allerdings nicht selbst live erlebt, sondern Videos). Der singt live scheinbar sehr oft flat, das ist bei Hansi nicht der Fall - aber gut, der hat auch ein Publikum, das massiv mitsingt und somit stützt.
Matt Barlow von Iced Earth ist live allerdings eine echte Granate gewesen, gegen den konnte auch Hansi abstinken.
 
Ja, hab ich mich auch ein bisschen an der Pflaume gestoert. Wiegesagt singt er oft tiefer als auf Platte, aber ich hab so gut wie nie einen verkackten Ton von ihm gehoert. Es ist eher so, dass er schon voher merkt, was gerade klappt und dass er dementsprechend spontan die Gesangsmelodie anpasst. Und genug hohe Stellen und Schreie baut er eigentlich trotzdem noch immer ein.
Das Stageacting ist dann wieder ein anderes Thema, aber ich finds sympathisch. ;)
 
Ich hab Blind Guardian am 3.10.2010 in Langen gesehen, und Hansi war einfach nur unschlagbar! Gesanglich war er so gut in Form wie nie, also soll mir keiner erzählen, er wäre live eine Pflaume =/

@Tinitus: ja, das Stageacting ist in der Tat ein anderes Thema, aber meiner Meinung nach sollte er das Headbangen lassen :D
 

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