Roland fp-7 & Kurzweil sp2s

[Halleluja]

Hallo,

I'm new here and I don't know if posting in English is allowed. I couldn't find it in the forum rules. First of all, I'm posting here because I can't find any good Dutch forum about keyboards. I hope you're willing to help me out, even though I can't post in German. If you respond in German that's oke, because I can read German quite well.

(1) Welches Budget steht dir zur Verfügung?
___ bis 1400 €
[ ] Gebrauchtkauf möglich

(2) Ist bereits Equipment vorhanden, das weiterbenutzt werden soll?
[ ] ja: __________________________
[X] nein.

(3) Wie schätzt du dich spieltechnisch ein?
[X] Anfänger
[ ] Fortgeschrittener
[ ] ambitionierter Fortgeschrittener
[ ] Profi (Berufsmusiker)

(4) Wo setzt du das Instrument ein? (nur zuhause, auf der Bühne, im Studio...) Wie oft wird es bewegt? Wie viel Gewicht willst du maximal schleppen?
The piano will be in my room. I have a small room though.

(5) Zu welchem Zweck benötigst du das Instrument (Klavierersatz, als Workstation für die Band/für Musikproduktion, als Alleinunterhalter-Board...)
For practice and occasional recording.

(6) Welche Musik-Stile spielst du und in welchen Besetzungen?
I don't have a specific style preference yet.

(7) Welche Sounds benötigst du? Welche davon besonders wichtig? Soll dein Instrument "Spezialist" auf einem bestimmten Soundgebiet sein?
I do want a good grand piano sound and some additional sounds to play and experiment with.

(8) Welche Erwartungen stellst du an die Soundqualität?
[ ] Naja, man soll schon das Klavier vom Banjo unterscheiden können...
[ ] Gute Sounds
[ ] Nur das Allerbeste!
[X] Besonders wichtige Aspekte: Piano sounds must be really good, additional sounds should be oke.

(9) Welche Instrumenttypen suchst du / kommen für dich infrage?
[ ] Hardware-Klangerzeuger mit Tastatur
[ ] Hardware-Klangerzeuger ohne Tastatur (Rack)
[ ] MIDI-Masterkeyboard
[ ] Software-Klangerzeuger

(10) Welche Features sind die besonders wichtig?
[X] Standard-Sounds (Piano, E-Piano, Orgeln, Streicher, Bläser)
[ ] Synthese / Soundbearbeitung
[ ] Sampling
[ ] Sequencing
[ ] Begleitautomatik
[ ] Masterkeyboardeigenschaften
[ ] Orgeldrawbars
[ ] Lesliesimulation
[ ] Eingebaute Lautsprecher
[ ] Eingebaute Effekte (falls gewünscht, konkret: __________)
[ ] sonstiges: ________________________________________

(11) Welche Tastaturgrößen kommen für die infrage?
[ ] 25
[ ] 37
[ ] 49
[ ] 61 (Standardgröße Keyboards/Orgeln)
[ ] 73/76
[X] 88 (Standardgröße Klavier)

(12) Welche Tastaturgewichtungen- und Typen kommen für dich infrage?
[ ] ungewichtet
[ ] (leicht-)gewichtet
[ ] Waterfall
[ ] Hammermechanik (eher schwer oder leicht gewichtet? ___________)

(13) Hast du bestimmte Ansprüche an die Optik? (klavierähnliches Aussehen, wohnzimmertauglich, cooles Design...)
__________________________________________________

(14) Sonst noch was? Extrawünsche?
__________________________________________________


I'll briefly explain my situation. The last year I've been practicing on a Yamaha-PSR290. I bought this keyboard because I thought it was good enough until I should go buy a decent piano. The last months I came to realize that the PSR290 just isn't a good piano replacement. Although I don't have any complaints about the sound, the keys are ultralight and non weighted ( thus making practice harder sometimes, it improves the chance of you pressing the wrong buttons) and the internal speakers are bad. This just isn't a good keyboard for a beginner pianist: you can't possibly put any emotion in the music with these keys. So I decided to buy a proper piano. Now some of you might think: Das ist dumm, such noob with a 1400 euro piano. Well, I tend to agree. But I don't have a high budget. I know that if I buy such a thing I will have to deal with it for the next 15 years. That's why I'm buying a decent piano which seems expensive at first, but it's better than buying a cheap ass piano and still have to buy a more expensive one.

Oke, that wasn't very brief. The problem is this: I'm a total newb. From what I've seen and heard the Roland FP-7 and the Kurzweil sp2x are both good instruments. What I like about the Roland is this:
1. I love the piano sound.
2. Built in speakers are decent.
3. Very praktisch, doesn't take much space.
What I don't like about the Roland:
1. Built in speakers are decent, but could be better.

I've never heard the Kurzweil sp2x in action ( only on internet) so I can't judge the sound, but I like this about it:
1. It's cheaper.
2. I can tell from reviews that the kurzweil piano sound is also gut.
3. Design, it looks great.

Now, when it comes to finances they are equally expensive. For 1400 euro's I get this
1. Roland FP-7 ( inkl. sustain pedahl)
2. Design stander
3. Kopfhorer

For 1400 euro's I get
1. Kurzweil sp2x
2. Roland dp 8 sustain pedahl
3. K&M 18880 stander
4. 2X the snake SPP2030 trs cables
5. Ein paar Samson Resolve 65A abhormonitore
6. Ein paar QUIK LOK BS300 monitorstativen

Can you tell me what's the best solution for me?

Please help this newb out, if you do, I'll be supporting the deutsche Mannschaft in 2008.

Vielen dank,

Gino
Aus holland

 

[stuckl]

Hi,

First of all: 1400,--€ is a GOOD budget!

I have got 3 favourites:

Roland FP 7
Yamaha cp 33
Kurzweil sp2x (correct name I think?)

Can you post some links from reviews about Kurzweil? I´d love to read, too.

It´s important that also test the Kurzweil and maybe report here, too.

Could cp 33 from Yamaha also be interesting for you?

best wishes
stuckl

 

[Halleluja]

Hi,

First of all: 1400,--€ is a GOOD budget!

I have got 3 favourites:

Roland FP 7
Yamaha cp 33
Kurzweil sp2x (correct name I think?)

Can you post some links from reviews about Kurzweil? I´d love to read, too.

It´s important that also test the Kurzweil and maybe report here, too.

Could cp 33 from Yamaha also be interesting for you?

best wishes
stuckl

Hallo Stuckl,

I haven't found alot of tests on the Kurzweil SP2X. Some are from more reliable sources than others.

First one is from Keyboard mag, which is very reliable I think:
http://www.keyboardmag.com/article/kurzweil-sp2x/oct-07/32011

This is the conclusion:

After some years of dormancy, Kurzweil is back in the game with a stage piano that sounds a good deal more expensive than it is. It also includes a well-rounded variety of sounds, superior effects (especially the reverbs), basic but capable MIDI controller abilities, and a graded action that will suit serious pianists. It would be a mistake to buy a digital stage piano in the just-over-a-grand range without playing the SP2X. The born-to-gig piano sound and competitive features make it a must-hear.

PROS
Rich, well-balanced piano sound. Robust assortment of electric pianos, basses, and percussion. Built-in rhythm loops. Tap tempo from keyboard. Held notes sustain during patch changes. Competitive array of MIDI controls and performance features.

CONS
Keyboard does not sense aftertouch. B-3 organ sounds are ho-hum. Front panel can be confusing.

And then there is harmony central, I think it's less reliable than keyboardmag. But the reviewer seems to know what he's talking about:

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Keyboard+And+MIDI/product/Kurzweil/SP2X/10/1

This month a Dutch keyboard magazine will review the Kurzweil SP2X. When the review comes out in december I can translate and post it here if you guys are interested.

About the CP-33, I tought the P-140 was a new and better model or am I wrong? But yes, that's also an option. I really don't have enough skills to judge which action is better. I can feel some differences between them but not enough to recognize them as an action from Roland or Yamaha for example.

Stuckl, can you tell me the differences between the Roland and the Kurzweil? Which one offer's more value for money?

Best regards,

Gino

 

[keyfreak]

About the CP-33, I tought the P-140 was a new and better model or am I wrong?

Yes, you're wrong. The CP33 is the newer one...

 

[Halleluja]

Yes, you're wrong. The CP33 is the newer one...

Oke, thanks. Can you explain why the general impression of reviews on the CP33 is more negative than the P-140? For example:

CP-33:
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Keyboard+And+MIDI/product/Yamaha/CP-33/10/1

P140:
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Keyboard+And+MIDI/product/Yamaha/P140/10/1

Best regards,

Gino

 

[stuckl]

Hi,

Aftertouch: I would not count on that point, we are talking about a stage-piano.

What do you mean with "Front panel"?

You think the hammond sound isn´t good from Kurzweil? Hammer-action-keyboard in general isn´t the best to play hammond, a second key for this does it much better...

I can´t say anything about differences between kurzweil and roland. I didn´t check the Kurzweil, it´s hard to find a store for this. But I read good reviews about Kurzweil so I will check it out in the long run. Maybe wait until Musikmesse Frankfurt in March 2008.

Thanks for the links!

stuckl

 

[stuckl]

I read the reviews.

I have to decide between Kurzweil and Yamaha. Need to check the Kurzweil, wonder where I will get the possibility. What they write about the Kurzweil sounds so great. To me it reads like it has got more "soulfulness" in it than the Yamaha...

 

[lucjesuistonpere]

I'm just reading the sentence about that you will play for the next 15 years with this instrument. I'm a bit sceptic because I don't think that a digital piano will satisfy you for such a long period of time. A digital piano is always a compromise. Admittedly, some of those compromises are quite good and usable (especially the FP7, my absolute favourite in this price area!) but I believe that it might become boring sometime. You know for what I'm aiming. You can of course use a digital piano as a transitional solution for some time, but I beg at a certain point you want to enjoy the taste of the REAL thing.

So my suggestion: if it is somehow POSSIBLE, i would by a real upright piano. I don't know how the situation in the Netherlands is, but in Germany you can get a decent used upright for 1400 € if you're lucky.

If it's not possible (I read you have still a small room) I would put some money aside to buy an upright when your flat situation will change sometime. In my opinion, this is more important than having the best possible digital piano.

Anyway:

That's why I'm buying a decent piano which seems expensive at first, but it's better than buying a cheap ass piano and still have to buy a more expensive one.

A very good statement from you! I think we should stick it on the top of the page as a warning for all those people, that come into here with a question like: "I want the best and highest resolving Steinway-Sound, can you tell me, what I can get for 200 € ???"

Please help this newb out, if you do, I'll be supporting the deutsche Mannschaft in 2008.

Supporting is not enough. You have to worship them at least 3 times a day.

 

[Halleluja]

Hello,

Stuckl, the pro's and con's were taken from the keyboardmag review. They're not my words. But, I think what they mean with front panel is the user interface, which according to them can be a bit confusing. But to me, it looks pretty straightforward.

Lucjesuistonpere, yes I've thought about that. About buying a real piano. I've never played a real decent piano and I'm getting more curious about it's sound and action. Unfortunately, it's not a realistic solution for me. I live in a very small apartment in Amsterdam, which is a very crowded city, and neighbours complain about noise all the time. Because I'm situated in this apartment for at least the next 5 years ( don't have much choice as a student, rooms are barely available) I'll have to go for a stage piano. But, it's almost certain I won't be happy with it for the next 15 years, so you're right. I'm pretty positive I'll be graduated by then and be able to find a decent job and a bigger house.
So you're favourite is the FP-7? I haven't heard any negative remarks on the FP-7 so I'm assuming that's the safest way to go.
BTW, I've always been a fan of the deutsche Mannschaft, but I just can't stand Lehmann.

Best regards,

Gino

 

[livebox]

If youre neighbours already complain about noise the FP-7 won't make you happy, sorry to say this, but it's reallity: Even the keys itselfe are quite noisy. All in all it's a great piano but probably not for you. Live is hard

Another thing: You mentioned to buy "the sssnake" trs cables. I had a similar one - and at least i cut the jacks of and used the cable for new jacks. It's incredible how bad the quality is!! For my SP i have some Cordial cables from a cheap series with mono jacks (this one), they do their job very well. Do not forget, a chain is just as strong as it's weakest part!

Back to topic: Did you ever think about a Roland RD-300SX? I've got one and I'm very pleased with.

So far,

Greetings, livebox

 

[Halleluja]

Hi,

My neighbours are pretty bitchy, but isn't THAT bad. At least I can plug in some headphones when practicing which isn't an option with a real piano.

About the cables. If you want a balanced signal, don't you need stereo jack (TRS) cables?

Isn't the FP-7 better than the RD300SX? Besides, if I'm going for the latter I'll have to buy external speakers etc. I"ll probaby go over my budget then. The Kurzweil SP2X might be a better option.

Best regards,

Gino

 

[Distance]

About the cables. If you want a balanced signal, don't you need stereo jack (TRS) cables?

You do! But it of course only works if the stagepiano has balanced outputs and your monitors have balanced inputs.
As to the Roland, I can't find any information on balanced outs there. However, the Kurzweil has them.
The other question is: What would you need them for? Usually, an unbalanced signal is totally sufficient, especially when only used at home, where you should neither find extreme cable-lengths nor tons of other cables that could interfere with it

Additionally, I certainly have to support livebox for the comment on the sssnake-cables.
I bought some of them a few years ago and now am absolutely sure: They're just trash. Nothing more.
They're even intended to be just that, because all the contacts are wrapped in heat shrink tube. So, you can open the plugs, but you can't just grab your soldering iron and repair it if a lead has been ripped off. VERY annoying.
Really, do yourself a favor and buy quality cables. Or, if you know how to handle a soldering iron, buy the component parts and make them yourself. It's definitely something that pays, especially in the long run.

As to the original question, i strongly recommend to test-drive all the competitors in a larger musicstore to find out what you - personally - like best.
This may require some effort, but it simply is the only way to really get the best for yourself.

hope this helps

 

[Halleluja]

Hi,

The problem is: I don't have alot of experience with weighted keys. I've tried the Yamaha P-140 and Roland FP-7 and the action felt pretty much the same for me, altough I could tell there were some slight differences. Both were a major step up compared to the Yamaha PSR-290. I was hoping you guys could tell me more about the differences between them, because I certainly wasn't able to notice any big differences. Maybe it doesn't really matter which one I'll buy. I know I'm going to be happy with whatever I'll choose.

Greetings,

Gino

 

[lucjesuistonpere]

If youre neighbours already complain about noise the FP-7 won't make you happy, sorry to say this, but it's reallity: Even the keys itselfe are quite noisy. All in all it's a great piano but probably not for you.

I don't think it is much more noisy than other stage pianos. I don't know the situation in the Netherlands but here everyone has a right to practice at certain times according to German law. And it shouldnt be much a problem to play a little softer at night. So let the neigbours just complain...

The RD300SX is not even half as good as the FP7. The FP has a more piano-like action and also a high resolving Steinway Sample that the little RD has not. The FP7 has also speakers that are surprisingly quite usable, so you don't need external amplification. (Although I think it might sound better over a HiFi system if you have one)

 

[livebox]

Isn't the FP-7 better than the RD300SX?

You can't say this generally, in your case it is the FP-7 which is better. I just suggested the RD 'couse you were thinkin' about the CP-33 which is more expensive than the RD and also has no internal speakers.

At least I can plug in some headphones when practicing which isn't an option with a real piano.

And that's the point. As i wrote, the keys itselfe are just too loud to practice in late hours.

@ luc: Hier war übrigens gar nichts gegen dich gerichtet... hörst dich irgendwie ein bisschen gereizt an

As to the original question, i strongly recommend to test-drive all the competitors in a larger musicstore to find out what you - personally - like best.
This may require some effort, but it simply is the only way to really get the best for yourself.

Full support!! Even if you don't know the differences as well as an experienced player - listen to your feelings and maybe to the shop assistant if he makes a good impression

Well, have to go.

Greetings, livebox

 

[lucjesuistonpere]

@livebox:

Hier war übrigens gar nichts gegen dich gerichtet... hörst dich irgendwie ein bisschen gereizt an

Dann hast du dich ver-hört. Ich bin sitz gerad so gechillt wie Gott auf Mallotze. Vielleicht klingt schlicht mein Englisch etwas aggro.

 

[livebox]

lol

allright


Greetings, livebox

 

[trolls99]

And that's the point. As i wrote, the keys itselfe are just too loud to practice in late hours.

Greetings, livebox

Actually, the keys are not that loud. If you have a separate room than it should be no problem.

 

[andi85]

Just one thought about playing the real thing sometimes: I don't know about your university, but if there's a music department - check it out! Chances are pretty good that there are a few practice rooms with pianos. So whenever you're in the right mood you can try to play on an acoustic piano for some time while continuing to practise on your digital piano on a daily basis.
I suppose they won't be in great condition - even here at Wesleyan (not the poorest university) most of the pianos, even those in the class rooms, are pretty beaten up. However, on the acoustic instruments you'll notice a difference in sound and touch that goes way beyond perfection.

 

[Halleluja]

Hey,

Thanks for the suggestion. I've never thought about that before. Once, I did a comparison in a music store between a CP300 ( supposedly one of the best) and a 15 year old Kawai which , according to the store representative, wasn't even in a very good condition. The difference in sound and feel still amazed me. Can't even imagine how a perfect in shape upright or Grand Piano feels. Digital piano's will always be the next best thing for me. I can't wait to own the real thing.
By the way, right now I'm really leaning towards the Roland FP-7. Much more practical, less cables, than the Kurzweil SP2X. I still want to test the latter though.

Best regards,

Gino

Just one thought about playing the real thing sometimes: I don't know about your university, but if there's a music department - check it out! Chances are pretty good that there are a few practice rooms with pianos. So whenever you're in the right mood you can try to play on an acoustic piano for some time while continuing to practise on your digital piano on a daily basis.
I suppose they won't be in great condition - even here at Wesleyan (not the poorest university) most of the pianos, even those in the class rooms, are pretty beaten up. However, on the acoustic instruments you'll notice a difference in sound and touch that goes way beyond perfection.