J.S.Bach

[PVC]

Gibt es hier leute die (wie ich) denken das J.S.Bach das grössten musikalischen Genie ist immer?


Peter

(Entschuldigung, mein Deutsch ist sehr schlecht!)

 

[.Jens]

Das "größte Genie" aller Zeiten - schwer zu sagen. Genie auf jeden Fall, und auf seine Art unvergleichlich.

Jens

 

[PVC]

(sorry.. I have to continue in English because I can't seem to find the right words in German)

It surprises me to find anybody interested in Classical music on this forum! I thought that it was generally a rock-oriented audience that visited this forum!


Peter

 

[Gast 317]

Das beste was ich von ihm kenne ist zweifelslos Toccata !
Einfach nur grandios. BTW, wenn jemand schon etwas besser spielen knn, dadrin sind auch Abschnitte, die man (wenn auch nicht so schnell) als Fingerübungen nehmen kann hehe.

 

[SoA]

ich bin besser

 

[coffeebreak]

@PVC:

You don´t have to be surprised.
In my opinion J.S. Bach ist not the greatest (nobody accept Ali is the greatest ), but he is a great one.
A lot of "todays´" musicians were inspirated from his music, look at Jethro Tull, Procol Harum or some Pop Music Projects.

He was also one of the first, who composed music, that sounds the same either you hear it forward or backwards (and this he did allthough no records or tape machines were invented :!: :shock: ).

So, for me he is some kind of music scientist and I like to hear his music when I´m in need of some recovery (or my ears are ).
Btw...I´m not a "piano player" , I play guitar.

 

[PVC]

The reason why I call him the greatest is because he composed at an unbelievably fast rate (faster than i.a. Mozart and most other Classical and certainly Modern composers), but yet all of his work attains a certain (very high) quality level. Others like e.g. Telemann composed more yearly "cycles" of Cantatas than Bach, but they never managed to pull all of their work to a high standard. Another reason is that, apart from his enormous knowledge about Classical music-theory, he was a well-respected instrument-technician who was often called upon for advice when e.g. a new organ had to be built. And finally, he played all keyboard intruments, (of course) the organ and all string instruments of his day; and all exceptionally well too. I don't know many people (not to say none) who would be able to perfectly perform both Das Wohltemperierte Klavier and the Sonatas & Partitas for Violin and Cello.

Lenny,

Of course, the Toccata in D minor is a tremendous work and it is most certainly one of Bach's most famous, although it was "only" one of his "juvenile" works. Take my advice and try to find a good recording of the "Goldberg Variationen", and if I may suggest, the version by Glenn Gould of 1981 (not the 1954!). It is also a more "accessible" work, although you would be astonished by the enormous technical highlights that Bach displayed in it!

Eventually, Bach was after all a German so you can all be proud about your late fellow-countryman!


Peter

 

[lee]

Jaja, schon ne ganz beeindruckende Geschichte.. Wir haben uns in der Schule einen Spielfilm über sein Leben angesehen.
Dieser Wettstreit hatte es in sich

 

[Matkra]

Alsoo,ich denke,dass J.S.Bach unvergleichlich ist.
Er hat sozusagen das "Songbook der klassischen Musik"
geschrieben und hat sozusagen sämtliche Musiker nach ihm
dadurch direkt oder indirekt beeinflusst.
Auch heute kann man seinen Einfluss noch gut finden.
Aber ihn für das größte Genie aller Zeiten zu erklären zu
erklären,ich weiß nicht... :?
Zumal viele seiner Werke ja auch einfach nur logisch
aufgebaut sind (man kann Komposition studieren... :shock: )

Matkra

 

[PVC]

I think that most of his influence can still be found in today's Jazz, which is in fact Bach played on a more syncopic rhythm. Like the Fugue, Jazz floats on a same recurrent theme that is repeated and exploited by all voices. But his greatest contribution to modern music is the new harmonics he introduced. Not just the "Wohltemperierte" way of tuning, which allowed for a far greater range of musical harmony to be used, but his incredible scale of "dissonant" harmonics which were seemingly in direct contradiction with classical harmonics theory. The unbelievable chords he used throughout his music have yet to be matched. E.g., compare the finale of his "Mattheus Passion" with the finale Händel's opera "Polifemo". There is a striking resemblance between the two parts, yet Bach's work is so much "richer" and just sounds so much better, without wanting to discredit Händel because he was a great composer also. Bach's dissonants were not re-dicovered until the end of the 19th century by Impressionists and Expressionists like e.g. Debussy. You should listen to some of his later Fugues like e.g. Contrapuntus 11 from "Die Künst der Fugue". I have fooled many friends who all thought that it was a piece by a 20th century composer!

Sorry, but I'm kind of a Bach-addict....


Peter

 

[Christian Roehl]

Wer Klassik hört ist selber schuld

 

[das tob]

@oben

 

[Christian Roehl]

Wer Klassik hört ist selber schuld

für diesen intoleranten post wollt ich mich bei euch entschuldigen

 

[Martin WPunkt]

The story of Bach becoming Thomaskantor in Leipzig in 1723 detects the opinion of the contemporaries about his "quality"

After Graupner and Telemann both refused to be engaged in this job, the people at Leipzig's St. Thomas said

"Nachdem wir die Besten nicht bekommen können, müssen wir uns mit Mittleren begnügen."

i.e. Bach at that time was only mid-class. And holds this category until Mendelssohn performed one of his works. But since Mendelssohn Bach was seen as that genius he used to be seen in our times.

Well well, the times they are a changing.....

Greets Martin

 

[blueblues]

@Matkra:
bach ist der prägenste komponist überhaupt in der abendländischen musikgeschichte gewesen. er hat viele kompositionstechniken entscheident weiterentwickelt und perfektioniert. er hat (bis auf die oper) in allen damals bekannten musikrichtungen bedeutende werke geschrieben, an deren größe und perfektion bis heute zum teil kein komponist heran gekommen ist.

es mag zwar komponisten geben, die in einzelnen bereichen besser gewesen sind, schaut man sich aber die werke als ganzes an, kann keiner mit ihm mithalten.

 

[inveteracy]

Mir persönlich sagen die Stücke von Debussy mehr zu, aber Bach ist unumstritten einer der wichtigsten und einflussreichsten Komponisten der Musikgeschichte !

I personally like the music of Debussy more, but Bach is undisputedly one of the most important and most influential composers of music history!

 

[OUTER-LIMIT]

Ich spiele gerne Bach.
Er erzeugt in seinen Stücken sehr viel Spannung!
Und es sind auch zugleich viele Fingerübungen

 

[Martin WPunkt]

@Matkra:
bach ist der prägenste komponist überhaupt in der abendländischen musikgeschichte gewesen.

Naja, wenn im Mittelalter niemand die Mehrstimmigkeit erfunden hätte, klängen seine Fugen wohl etwas eintönig. Und was die "Größe" und "Perfektion" seiner ach so genialen Werke angeht: vergleiche mal Bachs geistliche Musik mit Bruckner. Da weiß man, was "Größe" ist.

Gruß Martin